[ slap! ] [ slap! slap! slap! slap! ] ow! ow! [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium-rich tums starts working so fast you'll forget you had heartburn. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums [ female announcer ] stress sweat is different than ordinary sweat. it smells worse. get 4x the protection against stress sweat. introducing new secret clinical strength stress response scent.

accomplishing even little things can become major victories. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. when i was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, my rheumatologist prescribed enbrel for my pain and stiffness, and to help stop joint damage. [ male announcer ] enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred. before starting enbrel, your doctor should test you for tuberculosis and discuss whether you've been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. you should not start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. tell your doctor if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have symptoms such as persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. since enbrel helped relieve my joint pain, it's the little things that mean the most. ask your rheumatologist if enbrel is right for you. [ doctor ] enbrel, the number one biologic medicine prescribed by rheumatologists.

for current and former military members and their families. get advice from the people who share your values. for our free usaa retirement guide, call 877-242-usaa. good morning from new york i'm chris hayes. for the first time in four years the senate pass ad bill proposal early this morning calling for $1 trillion in new taxes over the next decade and a nonbinding agreement the senate voted 62-37 to approve the keystone pipeline. i'm joined by carolyn mccarthy, david young and congressman

basara of california and jim antle. coming up the presidential election and tragedy of newtown the two biggest domestic policy priorities for president and democrats on capitol hill are overhauling the country's immigration laws and strengthening its gun laws. in the twin tales of how these priorities have fared in the first few months of the 113th congress reveal a lot about the political pressures republicans are and are not facing right now. on tuesday senate majority leader harry reid announced he would not include a measure sponsored by senator feinstein to ban assault weapons. instead he said it would be considered as an amendment. >> i want people to have the ability to vote on assault weapons, mental health, safety in schools, federal trafficking,

clips, everything. but i cannot do that until i get a bill on the floor. right now her amendment using the most optimistic numbers has less than 40 votes. that's not 60. i have to get something on the floor so we can have votes on that issue and the other issues that i talked about. >> it's prompt this headline on wednesday from ""the onion"." the time for watered-down and effectively gun allows now. background checks would not suffer the same fate as assault weapons ban. i'll start bringing a bill to reduce gun violence. it will include provisions on background checks, school safety and gun trafficking. on the immigration side a bipartisan group of senators has said they want to unveil a draft of an immigration bill next month and the initial post-election enthusiasm that

many in the gop establishment showed for comprehensive immigration reform has managed to hold firm. the republican national committee released a report on monday that endorsed comprehensive immigration reform and on tuesday rand paul of kentucky gave a speech to the u.s. hispanic chamber of commerce in which he sold his proposal for immigration reform by insisting that latinos are natural republicans. >> republicans have been losing both the respect and votes of a group of people who already identify with people of our beliefs, family, and conservative values. hispanics should be a natural and sizable part of the republican base. but they are steadily drifting away from the gop in each election. this says more about republicans than i want does about hispanics. defense of the unborn, defense of traditional marriage are republican issues that should resonate with latinos but have been obscured by the perception that republicans are hostile to immigrants. so the rand paul calculation there is interesting because i think everybody thinks about

rand paul as a possible 2016 candidate. there's this question was he seeing an opportunity get to the right of where the establishment is because that's where the space is much as mitt romney got to the right of rick perry back in the primary and i think this seemed to me a real indicator, tipping point moment whether paul would seize that opportunity and the fact he made the calculation he did seems to me to cement what i thought at first was possibly a conventional wisdom that cemented too quickly which is you'll see the gop establishment the conservative elite keep sort of coalition together on immigration reform. >> right. it's particularly interesting given that it was an opportunity to get to the right of marco rubio who is definitely somebody who will be completing for similar voters if they both run for the nomination in 2016. you do have to remember, those that rand paul is somewhat

philosophically libertarian. they believe in more expansion civilian immigration policy. it does show you the political restrictionist position isn't as strong. >> were you surprised? >> i was mildly surprised. i thought he would have couched it in terms where he was more clearly to the right of rubio. there's some nuances of it where the border security metrics he could argue are to the right of rubios. >> chris, they are all running to a new political reality. and it's a result of election of november 2012 and there's also a strain of pragmatism. many republicans want to dispose of this issue in a sensible way. they've been afraid to do so with the party so strong these days. what you're seeing is rand paul saying this is where i would want to go on a pragmatic basis

but at the same time think about what's driving that republican party, that libertarian side, the young folks and most young people will tell you absolutely, treat these folks like they are here. they are my student friends. i know them well. so let's be pragmatic. same thing on gays and lesbians. >> the other thing too and people have to understand that members of congress and certainly on the senate side realize, you know, i know for the last campaign everybody was stock exchange we'll ship 11,000, 11 million, 12 million out. think about that. 0 it's just not going to happen. >> talk about big government. >> we have to look at -- can you imagine having the ships and planes hauling off people. i agree that, you know, right now if you really look to the future, we need to have these new workers. we need them for hi-tech jobs but we need them for

agricultural jobs. >> your district is a place that, you know, there's been an interesting story about, about the way immigration has worked on long island and it's changed long island in a lot of ways. places have gotten far, far more diverse quite quickly. i remember when i covered the last big immigration fight in 2006-2007, one of the hot spots was in long island partly because things had changed very quickly. there were a lot of day laborers. tensions around day laborers. what are the politics four and your district? >> the politics for me to be very honest with you and i think i have extremely intelligent constituents -- >> as does every member of congress. >> they follow what's going on as far as in the news and everything else like that. but my district, the immigration issue is so diverse. it's not one solid large group. >> interesting. >> so, you know, i have asians.

i have latinos. i have just -- you name it. if you look at the percentages they are there. so it's not an issue. i will say to you eight or nine years ago it was an issue. i was speaking at a temple and they were saying, you know, they didn't like the way downtown was going because these people were buying the stores in a said so you would rather have an empty town or you rather have someone opening up businesses. >> you put your finger on to me which is the most fascinating thing about this the way politics are playing out. two things are happening. one is that the kind of conversion, the pragmatic political conversion of the karl roves of the world who can read an exit poll who says we can't win national elections losing 75-25. can't do it. but then what's interesting to me is when i covered the 2007 fight, you know, those office switch boards were flooded every right-wing talk show host every day was in the weed of everything on mccain-kennedy.

there was this massive genuine grassroots backlash and you saw it in town halls. very tea party stuff. gary you covered this. why are things different because that to me is i..ing. pragmatic calculation on behalf of the republican elite i get. >> there's a sense they love, the right loves power more than it hates immigrants. that's the point. if they carry on doing this they will lose and there are so many other things at stake if they lose that they can't carry on in their way. so there's that sense of inevitabilitity forces a reconing. there was a time in the '60s when no one would engage, a large part of the population wouldn't engage with civil rights. then they said we have to find a way to do this. there's no reason why immigration reform and rand paul says hispanics are natural republicans which they used to say that about black people too. lost of people in america have

faith in family and are not republicans. republicans should be natural to immigration reform. many depends on what kind of immigration reform. they could favor immigration reform that brings in large number of people driving down the wage rate who don't become citizens for an awfully long time and stop the hugest big government project i can think of which is building a useless wall between america and mexico. there's nothing conservative actually about the immigration, the nature of the immigration conversation. >> congressman i want you to respond to that. i want to talk about the devil in the details. where we are in the house and counter pose to where we are on guns right after we take a break. u can't go wrong loving i.

vo: from the classic lines u can't go wrong loving i. to the elegant trim in each and every piece, bold will make your reality a dream. like other precious things that start off white, it yellows over time.

fact is, when it comes to your smile, if you're not whitening, you're yellowing. crest 3d white whitestrips go below the enamel surface to whiten as well as $500 professional treatments, at a fraction of the cost. guaranteed, or your money back. crest. life opens up when you do. want a whiter smile today? try 2 hour express whitestrips. [ male announcer ] book ahead and save up to 20 percent at doubletree.com, so you can sit back, relax and enjoy. doubletree by hilton. where the little things mean everything.

you know gary makes some interesting points and i want to make sure we recognize

something. the deal is not done. we still have a long ways to go. and we were chatting off camera that all these big issues have to take some time to percolate and boil because they are not easy. and what i fear is that we still have some elements out there, for example, what we do, not about those who are here right now but what do we do about those folks that waited in line. we have a long backlog. will we make sure people who try to do at any time right way comes in. what happens in the future. how many folks will we allow in starting tomorrow. and that's a big question because the farmers will tell you we need a whole bunch of folks and farm workers say wait a minute there's a bunch of americans unemployed. >> in fact, the afl-cio and chamber of commerce have been talks with the bipartisan group in the senate about what's called future flow issue in imgrace policy circles particularly people on the low skilled end of things and what their wages will be and there's a disagreement that's happening. >> it could be those who are

currently here aren't the problem it's those who will come in the future. >> as to your points about this not being a done deal this is a warning shot from six members of the judiciary committee who are basically saying slow your roll wait up on the hearings here. the last time congress considered legislation of this magnitude it was written behind closed doors and passed with no process. it resulted in sweeping changes to our health care system. if we bring these important toishs the senate floor without them having been worked through committee it is a prescription for a real problem. there's a real fight? >> jeff session will lead the opposition to it in the senate and steve king has emerged of the leader of the opposition to it in the house. i do think the lack of a voice does somewhat change the calculus a little bit in having people like marco rubio and ran paul not supporting the sessions/king position. >> they can't claim this is being done by people behind

closed doors without them -- they are in the room equal number. this is hopefully going true bipartisan bill. >> explain that. the senate process got a lot of attention. there's a house process as well. >> same conversation. actually our process is actually older than theirs. we started quite some time ago. we're all having conversations. >> there are members of both parties working together? >> equal number of republicans and democrats working in the house and senate to come up with a bill. bills will be very similar. >> there's this threshold issue that -- >> i was going say when we talked earlier in the beginning that this issue has, you know, it's revolving. we understand that. by the way, i happen to bree we should be going slow on it. but we've already known we've been working on this for a number of years. it's not a matter of like oh, tomorrow we'll have a bill. it's something that's been worked on for a long time. but the country is changing. now that upset as lot of people. and the country is changing.

but that's who we all were. i don't think anybody at this table, certainly being irish we weren't welcomed many years ago and yet it takes time to get into this. so, when you think about, wherever you go, wherever you go and i don't care where you go, you're going to see people that don't look like us. that's the truth of it. people are getting used to that. >> they do look like us. >> i think that there is -- there's an age thing here too. you mentioned that earlier. we can compare this to gay marriage, to a range of things where there's a different generation of americans who are born with a different sense of what is real, what is acceptable, what their world is, what their future is. 2042 the country's minority white. if you were born in 1940 the prospect of that and you're

white the prospect of that may scare you. if you were born in 2000 or 1990 the prospect of that is just your life. and so this conversation about immigration in some ways is a proxy for what do we think about the country that we are becoming and the country to some extent that we already are. >> that's where -- it's precisely this political question, the kind of tipping point or let's say threshold issue is this line of a pathway to citizenship precisely because the most crass political calculation if you're a republican strategist and operating completely amorally why do you want to add 12 million voters who will vote against you 75-25. that's why this issue, pathway to citizenship as part of this comprehensive immigration plan has been a test. there was the jeb bush book that came out that surprised people.

here's rand paul attempting to endorse it while minimizing its importance which i think is the new republican rhetoric. take a look. >> the immigration debate has been trapped and it's been polarized by two terms, path to citizenship and amnesty. i'm not granting any new pathway or any new line. the only thing i am saying that may be different than hat we have now is that i don't think you should have to go back to mexico and apply. i think that if that's the primary country we're talking about or central america. >> here's the polling on this pathway to citizenship all americans, you know, if you believe pathway to citizenship is best way to deal with illegal immigrant, americans 63%, democrats 71%, republicans 53%. tea party are the people not surprisingly that oppose it. >> 45%. >> that's pretty good. when if you asked about obama care or something like that. >> republicans have learned that

while these folks who were undocumented can't vote their kids who are born here are becoming citizens are voting and not voting for republicans and at the same time that poll shows the people are way ahead of the politicians on this one. they are ready for this. they want it. they want to see the system work. so they want a pragmatic approach and there's a really good political and pragmatic sweet spot we can hit if we work it the right way. >> it's a small spot. i don't think we should -- having covered the complexity there's a lot of moving pieces when people talk about what the enforcement part of it will be. hat the current pathway to citizenship will look like. that pathway will have a number of hurdles. you can build eight foot hurdles or two foot and some will run smack dab into that. >> tough, smart and fair. >> the fact that the country does immigration reform doesn't mean immigration reform is good and the fact that it's bipartisan doesn't mean it's good. financial deregulation was

bipartisan. iraq war was bipartisan. there's a lot of things both parties agree on that's not a good idea. >> you have to look at the shadow of the 1976 immigration reform which fueled a lot of republican opposition to future comprehensive legislation. 1986 reform was number one supposed to solve the illegal immigration problem. it did not. it had a balance of enforcement and legalization that did not really produce the balance that they wanted. and thursdayly it didn't really produce an upswing in hispanic votes for republicans. and the post-amnesty post-legalization voted more democratic. >> i think republicans are absolutely fooling themselves and hilariously deluded if they think comprehensive immigration reform bill coming out of this congress will correct their margins. >> it's not in our dna. >> don't know if it's dna. i want to talk, i want to play this one bit of sound because

it's so good. it's a montag of rand paul. it's this ernest, calculated and clumsy outreach to hispanics. we're here! we're going to the park! [ gina ] oh hey, dan! i really like your new jetta! and you want to buy one like mine because it's so safe, right? yeah... yeah... i know what you've heard -- iihs top safety pick for $159 a month -- but, i wish it was more dangerous, like a monster truck or dune buggy! you can't have the same car as me! [ male announcer ] now everyone's going to want one. let's get a jetta. [ male announcer ] volkswagen springtoberfest is here and there's no better time to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease one of four volkswagen models for under $200 a month. visit vwdealer.com today. ...amelia... neil and buzz:

for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it.

. . . . . my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

i live, worked and played aside latinos and growing up in texas i never met a latino that didn't work. in college i read a book -- [ speaking foreign language ] . republicans who criticize the use 2005 languages make a great mistake. i never met an immigrant looking for a free lunch. no one captures the romance of the culture. my hope we begin a dialogue between the gop and latinos.

>> rand paul a great fun of marxist. that was perfect of this political dance going on in the republican party. congressman you want to respond to jim's be point about the '86 amnesty. that's true. that's viewed of the big policy failure. we got together. it was under a republican president and didn't work. >> what i was going to say in 1986 was a different time than what we're facing today. in 1986 it was a blanket amnesty program. but we didn't have problems along the borders of drug smuggling and gun. we also didn't have 9/11 where we have to watch the borders to make sure terrorists don't get into our country. we also -- the american people weren't ready for it to be very honest with you because all we saw were more and more immigrants coming in and what i tend to think we're working on not only do we look to see how we take in these 10 or 11

million people but how do we make sure we slow down everything else because the country can only take so many people anyhow. >> you said before what i thought was the rightness of this political issue. the reason i want to compare and contrast the status of gun safety legislation and immigration is because they were the two priorities but they came from very different places. the immigration was percolating, it percolated through the campaign, it was talked about a fair amount in the campaign, there was then an electoral decision made and that was reflected both in who was elected to be president of the united states but also in the exit polls and then there was a kind of come to jesus moment for many republicans. gun safety was largely, i think, the product of the just sheer overwhelming horror of what we saw in newtown. very different. so many way opposite kind of political trajectory, an event that comes out of nowhere.

it doesn't come out of nowhere because people are dying from guns every day in this country. it captures the imagination. creates this moral outrage we have to do something. what is your understanding of what the politics -- did noewton change this more or less? >> i knew politics has changed but is changing but, again, it's evolving. after virginia tech people started talking about it. then with each large shooting people starting to talk about it even more. aurora, certainly newtown. but also people now are being more and more aware of the shootings happening in their communities every single day because those numbers are coming out. how many people have died since newtown. people are more aware. like why aren't we doing something about it. the media has stayed on to this story and when you think about time wise that's amazing. usually a story would last ten days.

>> so what i'm hearing from you actually is you think that it did permanently alter or all terrify for a longer period of time the conversation about gun deaths and the politics of the gun issue? >> yes. absolutely. plus people are looking at now, looking at is it a public health issue also which i happen to believe. i've been talking about that for many, many years. >> see, i think while noewtown was a catalyst was obama's response. obama could have gone out and done what i've seen him do many times before -- >> like gabrielle giffords. >> you shed a tear. let's hug our children closer tonight. this is a terrible tragedy. now is not the time for politics. he didn't do that. and he followed through. and i think the one way in which those two things are similar is leadership, that when we talk about people not being ready for it, i know what you mean, there has to be something for them to

be ready for. and what's different now about gun control is that people are actually discussing it. i mean what comes out of this particular round of discussions and horse trading is one thing. but previously it wasn't even discussed. >> i want to talk about what calculations members of the republican party are making on this. it's quite different although there is some bipartisan work talk about that. 2883 people killed by guns in the u.s. eight kids a day since newtown. more after the break. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+.

it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. do we hano.a mower? a trimmer? no. we got nothing. we just bought our first house, we're on a budget. we're not ready for spring. well let's get you ready. very nice. you see these various colors. we got workshops every saturday. yes, maybe a little bit over here. this spring, take on more lawn for less. not bad for our first spring. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. get ortho home defense, a special buy at just $6.88. . so there's some bipartisan collaboration on gun legislation in the wake of newtown. and in guess my question to you is on the right has the politics of this issue changed? my sense is it hasn't that much. >> don't think it changed at all. i do think sandy hook shootings revived gun control as a national issue and it was a dead issue for 20 years.

even many democrats were ignoring it, the national party certainly had backed away from it. it wasn't a point of emphasis. it is now. democrats think it's a winning issue. republicans have not changed on it very much unless you're from a suburban district with a high percentage of obama voters. >> after virginia tech i was able to get passed in the senate and house and signed by president bush national instant background check system we improved it. something that could work. unfortunately it's been starved by not having the funding that it needs. but you can do things that can save lives. and we had a unanimous consent on the house floor. mainly because a lot of republicans didn't want to vote for it. i understand that. and democrats too. we have certainly our democrats. but to say nothing can to be done, you know, that's something that nobody -- >> but politics did substantially change after 1994

on this issue and for a lengthy period of time. >> my sense is there has been some -- i would disagree with jim a little in that i do believe republicans are looking at this differently because the public is looking at this differently. but i don't believe, unlike with immigration the public has gelled with where it wants to go. the public is way ahead of the politicians they are ready to go. i don't even know if responsible gun owners say we have to ban assault weapons. >> this is the most fascinating thing about politics. we talk about public opinion. what the public wants. it's this phrase we throw around. no one actually knows what it means. literally no one knows what it means. you call people up, back brown checks that makes common sense. they put down their phone and go about their day and do they ever think about it again? maybe, maybe not. do they call their congressman, write a check, show up at a town hall.

when we talk about where the public is, you know, it's this incredibly mysterious thing that ends up occupying the center of every conversation we have. >> it doesn't measure depth. >> i totally agree on the gun issue. >> with guns there's a majority in favor of -- >> background checks. >> background checks. but it's whether you can mobilize that majority and actually really gun advocates are far more likely to write a letter, far more likely to lobby and far more militant. one of the differences between this and immigration reform immigration reform as a ready made mobilized community behind it. they are trying to actually create a community around guns. >> i want to read this quote because this is a politico report on a deal the white house made with groups that are advocating gun safety legislation. basically said the groups could

have access and involvement but they would have to offer silence and support in exchange. the implied rules, according to conversations with many of those involved, no infighting. this is exactly what happened with affordable care act. i know it because i reported on it. this seems like the white house did not learn its lesson because you want to have people doing the advocacy. you don't want them falling in line. i don't understand that political calculation. >> understand that philosophy in the beginning. but to be honest with you the president has been out there more than ever, certainly vice president joe biden has been out there more on the face of it. which is fine. but behind the scene, believe me, because i'm working -- >> these are your -- these are your homeys. >> they are out there. emails are going out on a daily

basis. phone calls are going out there. . >> what you saw in this was when the assault weapon ban portion of the senate bill was cast off, it's going to get a vote on amendment but not going pass. it's dead, right. there was no outcry. i couldn't find anyone taking the microphones. so there's no political cost. i know but the point -- is that the point? the point is what then -- the political calculation that's being made? >> democracy works slowly but it gets us there. on immigration this year we may get there. i've been here 20 years in congress. i've been trying to do this for 20 years. we're going finally i hope get there. >> what there is, talk about what's actually going to be in this legislation what we're going to get when something has to to be done on guns and what it will be right after this. stolen identities? >> 30-year-old american man, excellent credit rating. >> announcer: lifelock monitors thousands of these sites 24 hours a day.

and if we discover any of our members' data for sale, lifelock is there with the most comprehensive identity theft protection available. [♪...] [squealing, crash] call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. try running four.ning a restaurant is hard, fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it.

make your mark with ink from chase. diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues... with three strains of good bacteria. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. [ slap! ] [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium-rich tums starts working so fast you'll forget you had heartburn.

♪ tum tum tum tum tums [ male announcer ] book ahead and save up to 20 percent at doubletree.com, so you can sit back, relax and enjoy. doubletree by hilton. where the little things mean everything. can make any old day a special occasion. so she makes her new mini cream pies with real cream filling and milk chocolate on a cookie-crumb crust. marie callender's. it's time to savor. get younger looking skin fast. with new olay regenerist micro-sculpting cream. with 2 new anti-aging ingredients. visible wrinkle reduction starts day 1. see younger looking skin before you finish one jar. new from olay. big news of the week on legislation that the senate will bring to the floor is that

closing the gun hole loophole or making background checks genuinely comprehensive, mandating they be used in citizen to citizen point of sale. >> right. >> that is going to be in the legislation that's sort of the base body and then other stuff in amendments, but the assault weapons ban and magazine clips are not in that base bill. i want to play you this clip and get your response congresswoman from a very thoughtful sort of conservative although interesting ideologically person we have on the show sometimes. he made this distinction between gun control and people control and the difference between the two. >> you can look at gun control as something that people are advancing as a policy idea. when you peel off the first layer of the cake you see what's in here it's actually people control. if you want to do gun control by doing more people control you should say so. that's a policy option. we should be clear that the

project is to do people control in the same way and that's -- >> thought this was an interesting distinction. you talked about background checks talking about managing and control who can have weapons. it seems to me the politics on those two issues it's much easier to get the first than the second. >> i agree. one of the thing that we found during this whole debate, especially when you talk about the background checks, majority of americans including gun owners, including nra they had no idea so many people were not getting background checks. that bothered them quite a bit. and that's why you see the polls, you know, almost 90% on background checks from gun owners and from the general public. we have a good chance of getting it through. i've not given up on the large magazines. i do believe if people look at it, if you stop the amount of bullet, the average is between 10 and 15 across the country that we can stop these mass murderers. at least have americans that

unfortunately go through this have a sporting chance as they say. so that might be a little bit harder. school safety we can get through. i also believe that it's moving fast is making sure that the gun trafficking -- that has a good chance. >> straw purchasing, cracking down on straw purchase. what's the path forward in the house -- let's say this does get out of the senate in something in its current form and the amendments don't get added to it. what's the path forward in the house? >> to be very honest with you that's up to speaker boehner on what -- he always said we'll wait until -- >> this is the new leading from behind posture of the house of representatives. >> we'll see what gets through the senate. that will be his decision. he might bring up one, he might put in school safety issues because the education committee has actually done something on that. mental illness. but it's the beginning, chris. >> chris, he owes the people of america a vote. >> a vote.

>> whether or not we pass something he owes the people of america a vote. he's certainly the families of victims he owes them a vote. and i belief the percolation we need to see so we finally get does sensible. >> in fact, he may be rolling the dice much less on this than in previous -- when he brought up the sandy he knew he would lose it when he brought up the fiscal cliff deal he knew he was going to lose that too. he may bring it up for a vote and, you know, there's not enough votes to sustain it in which he can look like a hero to everyone. thank you all for joining us this morning. >> thank you. >> obama news really after this. . but don't worry, he'll find someone else. ♪ who's that lady? ♪ who's that lady? ♪ sexy lady

♪ who's that lady? [ female announcer ] swiffer sweeper's electrostatic dry cloths attract and lock dirt, dust, and hair on contact to clean 50% more than a broom. it's a difference you can feel. swiffer gives cleaning a whole new meaning. and now swiffer wet and dry refills are available with the fresh scent of gain. because all these whole grains aren't healthy unless you actually eat them ♪ multigrain cheerios. also available in delicious peanut butter. healthy never tasted so sweet.

i took something for my sinuses, but i still have this cough. [ male announcer ] a lot of sinus products don't treat cough. they don't? [ male announcer ] nope, but alka seltzer plus severe sinus does it treats your worst sinus symptoms, plus that annoying cough. [ breathes deeply ] ♪ oh, what a relief it is [ angry gibberish ]

[ breathes deeply ] ♪ oh, what a relief it is want to invest in something that gives you many happy returns? invest in the lives of children by being a teacher. there's nothing as rewarding as watching kids succeed and knowing you had a hand in it. you'll want to be a teacher. the more you know. president obama wrapped up his first trip to israel on the west bank as president yesterday a three day trip that showcased

noticeably warmer relations between obama and the prime minister netanyahu. no substantive policy changes or announcements. throughout the trip his rhetorical talents were on full display. while speaking to students in jerusalem he received applause in his call for a viable palestinian state. >> you have the opportunity to be the generation that permanently discuss the zionist dream or face a growing challenge to its future. given the demographics west of the jordan river, the only way for israel to endure and thrive as a jewish and democratic state is through the realization of an independent and viable palestine. that's true. [ applause ] >> the president used the trip not only to urge young israel chips to fight for peace but reiterate united states position on iran. >> iran must know this time is

not unlimited and i've made the position of the united states of america clear. iran must not get a nuclear weapon. this is not a danger that can be contained and as president i've said all options are on the table for achieving our objectives, america will do what we must to prevent a nuclear armed iran opinion >> the president repaired the relationship with netanyahu. in the west bank he was greeted with apathy and outright protests. however rocky the relationship between obama and nept nept has been this presidency has made no progress in producing movement towards palestinian self-determination. joining us now is rashid khalidi and professor of arab modern

studies. norah returning to the program, and jeremy executive director, pro israel pro peace lob jig group. great to have you here. i thought this trip was fascinating. so here's my first thought and i'm curious to hear your thoughts. you said in this your new very excellent book, you said something about no president had faced quite the intense backlash that was a combination of domestic backlash and backlash in israel where he had low approval ratings, a lot of mistrust. this president had. this deep mistrust of his intentions vis-a-vis israel. watching the israel trip where he gets off the plane, says shalom people go nuts on the

tarmac. why didn't he do this years ago. if there was this gut thing part of it hemming him in politically maybe she should have gone earlier. if as going to be this easy why didn't he go earlier and this did trip accomplish something in terms of transcending the restrictions that are inherent in him being a defensive crouch in how he supports israel. >> he did the schmooze he did across the street at the synagogue two blocks away from his home in chicago. he's capable of that. we've seen him do that many times. i don't think that he pushed anything substantive. the problem is if israelis don't feel love enough he gave them love. it's not going to produce anything on the ground. there's no measurable change. maybe israelis will feel better. i'm happy they feel better. i wish palestinians feel better. he didn't talk about that. as in every single one of

speeches he only talked about israelis. he talked about a poor israeli child killed. >> in the speech he does talk about a child growing up in the west bank whose parents were restricted can't attend university have to go through checkpoints to go to work. he did this classic barack obama thing, the struck yoture of tha speech how you talk to israel playbook, the history of the jewish people, persecution, the holocaust, establishing this history that's meaningful and he had this section about palestinians and viable palestinian stateindig any tis and rights they face. >> even as he mentioned the rights of palestinians and what they go through and appealing to

israelis to be empathetic. he explained in the choice of palestinian freedom is yours to make. you can do that for self-interested reasons to preserve the democratic dream or because your empathic. it's up to you. it's not a choice. >> that's very interesting. >> i don't know he said it as a choice. he said it's necessary to absolutely for israel's survival to exist in its form. it's necessary. it's just. and it's right. that was three-part framework. he said it's an absolute need -- >> for israel. >>'s making the case to the israeli people. >> he said it was just. >> i'm so enthusiastic about the trip as someone who once worked on presidential trips. i have to take my hat off to what they accomplished in this trip.

first, reaching, connecting with the israeli people, saying i understand why you might be atrade. i under the needs of security. but together we can do better. we can reach out and build a better future. talking about what we can do for israeli children and palestinian children. that was a terrific framework. go ahead. >> let's continue. i caught myself interrupting you. >> as you know, president obama began as a community organizer, as a community organizer he start with people where they are. you don't start up here and start lecturing to them about what they should do. you start where you are and then able to move them where you hope together they will go. >> he certainly didn't start where the palestinians are or speak to them with the same amount of empathy. >> when he talked about palestinian children, when he talked about the future i heard a degree of empathy that we don't often hear and very welcomed and it was so welcomed to that audience which --

>> the israeli audience. >> there were israeli jews and arabs when you read the responses from people in that audience it did include a cross section of the israeli population. >> 20% of which is -- >> arab. >> excluded from the zionist dream because they are muslim and christian and not considered part of the performance allocation privileged by israelis benefits. >> he said that israel to survive has to be a democracy and be the home of the jewish people and there has to be a state of palestine that's the home of the palestinian people. but very clearly it has to be a democracy. >> i want to go back to this thing you said because to me, what the broader frame of this is about the possible circumstance the rhetorical position adopted by the president in his relationship to the two parties. and the theme of your book is that the u.s. has played a dual

role, essentially. which simultaneously both these things. the staunchest ally, the best friend of israel and also -- so a teammate of israel and also the referee in the dispute between israelis and palestinians. it can't be both. i want to talk about that right after this break. [ male announcer ] how do you measure happiness? by the armful? by the barrelful? the carful? how about...by the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight.

campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth! let's see what you got. rv -- covered. why would you pay for a hotel? i never do. motorcycles -- check. atv. i ride those. do you? no. boat. house. hello, dear. hello. hello. oh! check it -- [ loud r&b on car radio ] i'm going on break! the more you bundle, the more you save.

now, that's progressive. all your important legal matters in just minutes. protect your family... and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. which shirt feels more expensive? i get to touch these guys? oooh, ooh la la. i'm feeling their muscles. yup, yup. -that one. -that one's softer.

actually, it's the same t-shirt. really? but this one was washed in downy. -really? -that's why it was softer. real soft, velvety feeling. let me try again. it's like an upgrade in a bottle. divine. why spend a lot of money when you can just use downy? downy's putting our money where our soft is. try downy softness. love it or your money back. hello from new york. i'm chris hayes. i'm here with our panel. i left off talking about the role of the u.s. in the peace process because much of this, that's the background context

for this. and you've made the argument in your new book that basically the u.s. has played a destructive role in the peace process because it's simultaneously tried to be israeli's closest ally and then hold itself out as a neutral broker between the two parties. >> right. there's an orwellian narrative in washington that the united states has been engaged in a peace process. there's a process. if you go back in the last couple of decades it has no produced peace and it cannot produce peace. this is like giving more meth to an addict. this process was designed to produce the outcome it's produced over several decade, occupation has gotten more intensive and stronger. settlement has expanded. those are the results. palestinians are cooped up much more than 20 years ago. when i was living in jerusalem

palestinians could go anywhere. they are all now -- >> but let me just say this. the peace process has produced, peace with egypt is a big deal. >> i'm talking about palestine. when the united states wants something as it wanted peace with egypt because it was important in the cold war the united states gets it over israeli objections. >> my perspective goes back to the clinton administration because i was working for president clinton in the second term. he was clearly personally dedicated to peace. he reached out. i think we got close. he got close at camp david. it does show the united states in that example can be both israel's ally and the broker who brings everybody together and, by the way, we would be talking later if you look at i don't think peace with jordan, for example had much of a cold war significance. i think we really have tried to encourage -- >> he could have gotten that any time. that was an easy deal. >> i'm not sure it was that easy

but you want happened. let's cheer our successes when they do. there are some examples where israel has been able to make peace with its neighbors. it's a good thing. >> here's my question. this is an interesting point. if you move in the circles of basically kind of center left over, right, which people who are liberals zionist, who love israel but want a two state solution all the way to people who are, don't agree with zionism or believe in a one state solution and believe in full democracy in the land west of the jordan river there's this sense of the u.s. has to play the role, they have to, the u.s. has to lead on peace. you're making the argument maybe benign neglect from the u.s. would be better. it would be better if there was not u.s. leadership? >> that's the question. what's the alternative? i think that benign neglect would be terrible. to let this fester would be bad for the united states. a black mark against its leadership in the world. i agree with you that there's been no results. that i absolutely agree.

but to say that the process has been designed in order to facilitate occupation i think is an overstatement. >> you have to go and look at the archaeology of all the deals that have been snind clueding what president clinton worked on. all of these things go back to ideas that are generated by begin in 1978. we're with the agreement that president carter made as part of the israel-egypt peace treaty. that's the framework in which prime minister begin and president clinton negotiated and that's designed -- >> it's not american policy. >> it has become american policy. >> it isn't. >> under people like dennis ross. >> if you look at 9193 we don't have to go back to 1978, looking at terms of oslo where there are terms of reference to international law. there's no prohibition of

settlements as war crimes. 54% of the settlers at the time of the signing of oslo were considered living in jewish neighborhoods. so that the expansion of that settler population is completely legal under oslo which the u.s. is completely in support of and illegal under international law. >> part of that is a concession in the context of negotiated framework. you can't say they are making this concession. that's what a peace process is. >> that wasn't supposed to be a concession. past delegate fought hard to keep that out but lost. but lost. >> here's my question. >> the framework since at threat of road map if not back into camp david has been two states for two people. it has not been some form of occupation. not been settlement expansion. the idea is to get two states living side-by-side. >> fundamentally it's a bad faith project that's been pursuing the goal -- my question for you if it is bad and i don't want to stipulate if it were, but if it were a bad faith

project then what would you like to see the u.s. do? >> great. there are alternatives. if the u.s. provides $3 billion to israel and it's vetoed out of the u.n. security council this it's unwilling to take us to the finish line and i think we need to internationalize this issue. that's the palestinian responsibility to international jaz it. there's clear support in the u.n. general assembly to do more and better than the u.s. has been able to do. >> again one of the reasons i was so pleased with what we saw with what president obama said and with what the world hear president obama say he severely explained this is what the united states policy is. it begins with israeli children and palestinian children. deserve a better future. how we going give to it them. second the way to do that is two states side-by-side and then third the way to get to two states is the through direct negotiations. you may not agree with that third step. i hope people will.

but the fact is we start with what's the best way to achieve what israeli and palestinian parents want for their children and one another. >> is that perfect example of the dual role. the position of direct negotiations is the position of the netanyahu government right now which would like to have a negotiated peace process while they have doubled subsidies for settlements while they continue to expand settlements. the president says here i am as your neutral arbiter. we believe the aspiration and determination of each child is fully equal. to then say yes fully equal but we should start direct negotiations which happens to be the position of the netanyahu government that seems to me exactly the problem. >> there's a big distance between direct negotiations and active american role. i think there's long term research into conflict resolution that shows you don't put two parties in a long run conflict and say work it out.

it's like a bad divorce. you don't say to the husband and wife go into a room and fugue it out. sadat and begin never met before that agreement was negotiated. >> chris pointed to something which has between case for decades. it's not like the united states comes into the room and is a mediator. the united states coordinates its position with israel all the time. so you have -- >> in some ways let me say if it didn't -- if it didn't do that let's be clear if it didn't do that that would fail the expectations of people -- >> there would be hell to pay. >> this isn't some sort of conspiracy theory. there are many people in america who think that's exactly what the u.s. should do, it should coordinate position with israel because it's our greatest ally. >> there's a letter that an american president sent to an

israeli prime minister, it's a memorandum of understanding. >> again, what i hear is some of this is -- this is the fate of a superpower. united states is the one government in the world right now that can step in in moments like this and try, again, achieve something. i wish i had your faith in the united nations. watching the united nations deal with other examples of international conflict does not leave me thinking oh, yes let's just leave this up to the united nations. they got a lot on their plate that they are working with. >> could we talk about, because it seems to me there's a little bit of background context in the trajectory of the obama administration through the first term that's useful here and we talk about relationship of the netanyahu government and settlement freeze, the cairo speech in 2009 and how that

pre-history, recent history set the context for today's trip. we'll talk about that when we get back. and you want to buy one like mine because it's so safe, right? yeah... yeah... i know what you've heard -- iihs top safety pick for $159 a month -- but, i wish it was more dangerous, like a monster truck or dune buggy! you can't have the same car as me! [ male announcer ] now everyone's going to want one. let's get a jetta. [ male announcer ] volkswagen springtoberfest is here and there's no better time to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease one of four volkswagen models for under $200 a month. visit vwdealer.com today. [ male announcer ] book ahead and save up to 20 percent at doubletree.com, so you can sit back, relax and enjoy. doubletree by hilton. where the little things mean everything.

i work for 47 different companies. well, technically i work for one. that company, the united states postal service® works for thousands of home businesses. because at usps.com® you can pay, print and have your packages picked up for free. i can even drop off free boxes. i wear a lot of hats. well, technically i wear one. the u.s. postal service®, no business too small.

this is the president did this big speech in cairo from june 2009. a big part of the idea of resetting the relationship of the u.s. to the middle east after the eight years of the bush administration and one of the things he did is call for an end to settlements in that speech. take a look. >> israelis must acknowledge that just as israel's right to exist cannot be denied neither can palestine's. the united states does not accept the legitimacy of continued israeli settlements. [ applause ] this construction violates previous agreements and

undermines efforts to achieve peace. it is time for these settlements to stop. it's time for these settlements to stop which is strong language. there was a call from netanyahu government to freeze construction on settlements and basically what happened was netanyahu government said no. at first they said okay sort of and then basically they said no. and the 2010 election which empowered certain domestic politics the president had to refreight this position. that was a fair statement. >> again, as i heard the president in israel two days ago, i didn't hear him to retreat. he said the settlements is not helpful. >> it's different than it's time for settlements to stop. >> what he said that's why i think you should get together and start talking. we can change the rhetoric. we can, among ourselves think of lot was different ways to complain about the settlements and i would join in most of it.

sooner or later what your going to do about it? >> change u.s. law so c3s are not funneling to racist right-wing really extremists who are beating up people. that's in his power. the irs can do that. the treasury can do that. it hasn't stopped under any administration. it's getting worse. >> condition u.s. aid. there's a lot of things the u.s. can do while instead of getting them together, while talking together for the past 20 years, settlers have grown from 200,000 in 1991 to 600,000 today. if we keep talking they are going to go up to a million. >> let's not keep talking. let's do something. >> but the issue is the lack of a border. this is kind of like in medicine when you focus on the symptom rather than the disease. the settlements is a symptom of a problem. israel and palestine don't have a border. if toirp advise the president --

>> the settlements are a constituent of the fact -- >> if you have a border, if you settle on where the line is between these two states whatever is being built on the israel side is legal and whatever is built on the other side is no longer. >> here's the domestic political thing, when he went to aipac and mentioned the 67 lines and everybody agrees that the 67 lines are the basic framework with swaps, right? he got this huge amount of blow back. it was like he had completely -- >> it was absurd. he called on the need for the people to put pressure on their leaders to do things that are politically difficult. 67 lines with swaps was a good idea. he need back up on that. he need american public pinto say yes, 67 swaps is the basis. >> the president did say the 67 lines with swaps. what he said the bottom line is agree on borders. if you start with borders and

security then tissues of settlements solve themselves. if we start with what we disagree with we'll keep exchanging how far it went. if we talk about what should the border be, how do we keep security and sovereignty on both sides -- >> you're having negotiations about a border and building on one side of the border that doesn't strike me as good faith negotiations. that's the problem. if the thing is the subject of the negotiations is land and while the subject of the negotiation the proposition on the table is how this land will be divided and one entity is able to build wherever, whenever with whatever resources, negotiations are about leverage. if that's the leverage on one side what's the leverage on the other side? >> like negotiating about a pie. >> one side is globling up the pie. >> it's something we realized in '91-'93. we went back to tunis. they told the plo leadership

americans gave us assurances this wouldn't happen and it's happening. how can we negotiate when the rug is being pulled out from under our feet. >> so settlement freeze it didn't happen. now we're talking about building in this section of jerusalem which would make it impossible to have a contiguous state. >> looked across and had danny who knows jerusalem as well as anyone. you guys go on that same trip and he takes you up there. that's where the peace process dies. he points to the settlement area because it would make it just impossible from a geographic perspective and so my question is, okay. they are talking about doing that. the president goes to israel. clearly was a successful trip from a political perspective. there's no question about that from a political perspective. politics via see israel and israeli leadership.

what next? what comes out of this. is there anything that comes out of it stsubstantively. >> john kerry went back to meet with netanyahu. probably the best thing that can happen is we don't see any large summits convening public displace and there's hard work of diplomacy going on behind-the-scenes. i think john kerry is putting this at the top of his agenda for his at the entrepreneur as secretary of state. the president has given him the political push to do it and i think if we don't read or see big public displace then quiet diplomacy behind-the-scenes is what should be going on. >> mahmoud abbas basically saying, you know, so the idea is how can we restart negotiations. right now the netanyahu government says we should begin direct negotiations right now. let's talk. the p.a.'s position is there has

to be a settlement freeze. the israeli government can floij secretly he'll stop settlement activities during the period of negotiations, referring to president netanyahu of israel he doesn't have to announce i want as a way much threading the needle. his political base will go crazy if he announces a settlement freeze. a settlement freeze is a necessary pre-condition from the p.a. to talks. what do you think? >> my opinion is i don't think diplomacy is the way to go. we've done it for 20 years. it's been disastrous. palestinians do not have equal rights within israel. so at this point i have more faith and i'm looking forward to the palestinian leaders on the ground, the gandhis who are leading movements to internationalize this issue. when president obama got there there were a grouch young palestinians who had set up a camp. basically the eye of the sun to protest the expansion and we didn't give them any attention in our news media and i think that's where we need to start

looking. >> there's been a lot of non. violent direct action protests in the west bank. we've talked to some people. i want to play this final bit of sound. this was the one moment on the trip that netanyahu was losing his mind which is when the president invokes very subtly the civil rights movement when he's standing with mahmoud abbas in the west bank. take a look. >> whenever i meet these young people, whether they are palestinian or israeli i'm reminded of my own daughters and i know what hopes and aspirations i have for them. and those of us in the united states understand that change takes time but it's also possible because there was a time had my daughters could not expect to have the same opportunities in their own country. as somebody else's daughters. what's true in the united states can be true here as well. >> what's true in the united states can be true here as well. the way that equality was achieved in the united states

was nonviolent direct action. we'll be right back. no. we got nothing. we just bought our first house, we're on a budget. we're not ready for spring. well let's get you ready. very nice. you see these various colors. we got workshops every saturday. yes, maybe a little bit over here. this spring, take on more lawn for less. not bad for our first spring. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. get ortho home defense, a special buy at just $6.88. i'i invest in what i know.r. i turned 65 last week. i'm getting married. planning a life. there are risks, sure. but, there's no reward without it. i want to be prepared for the long haul. i see a world bursting with opportunities. india, china, brazil, ishares, small-caps, large-caps, ishares. industrials. low cost. every dollar counts. ishares. income. dividends. bonds. i like bonds. ishares. commodities.

diversification. choices. my own ideas. ishares. i want to use the same stuff the big guys use. ishares. 9 out of 10 large, professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. introducing the ishares core, etfs for the heart of your portfolio. tax efficient and low cost building blocks to help you keep more of what you earn. call your advisor. visit ishares.com. ishares. yeah, ishares. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. today is gonna be an important day for us. you ready? we wanna be our brother's keeper. what's number two we wanna do? bring it up to 90 decatherms. how bout ya, joe? let's go ahead and bring it online. attention on site, attention on site. now starting unit nine. some of the world's cleanest gas turbines are now powering some of america's biggest cities.

siemens. answers. olay ultra moisture body wash can with more moisturizers than seven bottles of the leading body wash. with ultra moisture your body wash is anything but basic. soft, smooth skin with olay. [ slap! ] [ slap! slap! slap! slap! ] ow! ow! [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium-rich tums starts working so fast you'll forget you had heartburn. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums

we're joined by director of middle east progress center for american progress and i want to widen the lens because this was not just a trip to israel and west bank it was a regional trip. very big regional news that came out of it. generally the feeling about these diplomatic trips they are largely pomp and circumstance. they were lowering expectations of substantive policy plans. on the last day on a trailer on the tarmac as the president was leaving israel he and netanyahu got together to call the president of turkey. these countries haven't been very close allies and had an intense falling out. that falling out was precipitated by a number of

things. the election of the president who comes from a political party that is sort of a islamist democrat party if that makes sense. his rhetoric on israel had been more pointed and critical than previous members of the turkish establishment. then the precipitating incident the freezing of diplomatic relations was the flotilla sent from turkey to break the blockade in gaza. commandos killed nine civilians on that boat than froze diplomatic relations between two countries and the big surprise outcome of this trip was that prime minister netanyahu called him and apologized not in be a sect terms but apologized in a very distinct diplomatic threading the needle language. was this surng to you guys?

>> when i talk about the president's trip for me such a triumph. i've worked on presidential trips. it was both state craft and stage craft. so he goes through, he meets with leaders, he has this really emotional good conversation with young people. and then as he's leaving on the way out he sort of brings two of america's biggest allies who have been at odds and gets them together okay you guys you got to start talking. it was something to see. it's good for us. it's good for our policies but also something to marvel at. >> i agree. this was -- i was surprised by it. a lot of people were. people have been saying for at that long time not only in israel's interest or turkey's interest, these are important partners on a number of fronts. this was i think classic diplomacy. this was netanyahu, if you remember just to go back last year you had the makings of this apology that was torpedoed by the foreign minister at the last

minute. he's sitting out right now. netanyahu was acting as his own foreign minister and took this opportunity. the way it was phrased netanyahu saying it's not that we weren't right there were operational mistakes we regret the loss of life. he said i accept this apology. that's diplomacy. both sides got what they wanted. >> not necessarily because he had originally said as part of the apology he wanted to lift the siege on gaza which was the purpose to begin with. so now they didn't even bring up -- >> supposedly it's being negotiated. >> being negotiated. in the phone conversation if i'm not mistaken, netanyahu stressed the wider array of goods that are now being let into -- >> both sides got some of what they wanted which is again diplomacy. >> bars of the prison have been opened a little more and the slot through which the food goes through is a little bigger. >> for the president it's a big

deal snooupts still a prison. >> the question is does -- when you talk about internationalizing the conflict and talk about what matters might play this kind of role does talk -- there's been talk about him wanting to play a key role and this became untenable when the diplomatic relations between turkey and israel became frayed. >> the important thing is we're talking about a democratic country in the case of turkey. and the change in 2000 was not you had a moderate islamist, a party coming to power. it was not the security establishment, not the deep state. it was the turkish parliament. we can see that during bush's war one iraq. when the deep state the army, military and everyone the prime minister wanted to allow turkish territory to be used for american force to transit into

iraq. the parliament wouldn't go along. that's a marker not only the importance of turkey because this is not just a power in the region it's a power at this moment fortunately is a democratic state. >> you make the argument in your book that democracization of the regimes -- >> when and if it happens. >> will completely make unsustainable the current u.s. policy in the region it's pretty indicated on being able to be a strong ally of israel, not have its interest threatened and the only way that's preserved is because of the lack of democratic domestic political pressure. >> you summed it up brilliantly, chris. i think when and if that changes -- it's a huge if and it won't be an easy or brief process. when and if that changes i think incredible tilt toward israel will be unsustainable in teams of our interests. there's a link to israel irrespective because a lot of

americans care about israel. but we have been able the united states have been able to completely take for warranted our countries widow not have democratic governance, where the views of the people count for nothing. i think the difference with turkey or difference with israel americans can't push an israeli government around the same way they can push a dictator around because an israeli government will fall or if the public doesn't support it and that doesn't happen in most of the arab countries. all of them are dictatorships. >> i want to get your response to that after we take a quick break. >> okay. [ coughs ] [ angry gibberish ]

i took something for my sinuses, but i still have this cough. [ male announcer ] a lot of sinus products don't treat cough. they don't? [ male announcer ] nope, but alka seltzer plus severe sinus does it treats your worst sinus symptoms, plus that annoying cough. [ breathes deeply ] ♪ oh, what a relief it is [ angry gibberish ] [ sneezing ] she may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec®. powerful allergy relief for adults and kids six years and older. zyrtec®. love the air.

[ male announcer ] book ahead and save up to 20 percent at doubletree.com, so you can sit back, relax and enjoy. doubletree by hilton. where the little things mean everything. last presidential trip to israel was george w. bush in 2008 and this trip in 2013 the region looks in many ways unrecognizable. would you have been hard pressed in 2008 to predict what would be happening five years later. it's a tremendous tumult. how does that shape american foreign policy? how are we doing muddling

through this remarkable period of uncertainty? >> you know, i think we're muddling through is the best way i can put it. certain steps i think that have been positive, many that have been negative. i think the president when we saw the demonstrations in 2011 what the president did in calling for the end of hosni mubarak to step down this is a recognition this is a big deal and we need to get on the side of the populations understanding the public will be more empowered. other governments dictatorship, regimes in the gulf, close allies let's admit nondemocratic allies saw that and were frightened and they bring this up when they talk to their american partners. >> the saudis were on the phone. >> we saw you do that to mubarak. are we next? there are consequences to doing that. it's a error and we're feeling

our way around. nine fairness we didn't immediately step in. we didn't see people revolting and automatically take the side of the people. we waited on that. we are late across the region. we're supportive of a syrian revolution and clamping down on a bahrainian revolution. and people in the eastern province of saudi arabia have been clamped down because it doesn't serve u.s. interest. >> what assad has done in syria is way worse than what's happening. >> no. let's not equalize them. but it's to make clear that the u.s. doesn't necessarily step in. >> it makes strategic calculations about what its interests are. but in the case of syria the worrying thing about the situation in syria, the first wave of this, particularly tunisia which was entirely nonviolent, the egyptian revolt which was nonviolent although

skirmishes and different forms of violence, to the syrian movement which began as nonviolent and faced such massive brutal horrific massacres has armed themselves and has become a long bloody civil war that has profound regional consequences and fear of spilling out and hezbollah looms large. >> wish we had more historical depth how we look at this. this is the third arab state to be devastated by a civil war. without pointing fingers of blame, lebanon for 15 years was devastated by civil war. foreign armies, foreign intelligence services. after the u.s. invasion in 2003 iraq went through a different but similar process. >> let's point fingers, please. >> in case of iraq we can point finger at the bush administration, it's very clear. it's not just displacement of millions of people. it's not just people being

slaughtered which is happening in syria. it's the deconstruction of stooss of state, the idea of a state of law, all -- >> the worst elements of society. >> exactly. giving free rein to people whose objectives and aims and means are horrific as far as, including most syrians are concerned or most iraqis and lebanese were concerned and stopping this as quickly as possible is something we should be concerned about. as this continues, the radicalization and extremism gets worse. >> the ripple effect, the reason when president obama is in jordan, right, it's because jordan has how many hundreds of thousands of syrian refugees who fled. 500,000 come to a small country with few resource. the united states is trying to help. you're right. what's happening in syria is horrific. the ruple effect around the globe is horrific. i cannot listen to, again, talk about the arab awakening.

we're settling in some of the worst settlements without expressing my own concern for what's happening for women in some of these countries. look at egypt, tunisia. women were on the front lines in many of these revolutions and now they are being shoved aside. there's a lot to be concerned. >> on the syrian issue, the foreign intervention on the syrian issue seems to me such a thorny thing. because at one time we're saying that foreign intervention is exacerbating the conflict because arms and money is flowing in. on the other side we're saying we need to bring it to close. those two things are at contention with each other. >> the foreign intervention takes the form of arms and training and support and encouraging -- >> to both sides. >> exactly. so the idea is not to intervene as we did in libya. >> we're not arming both sides. >> not to do what nato did to syria and libya.

it's a different context. it's not a one size fits all and we've stein spill over from that. the where is we can come to a diplomatic and political solution. >> the problem with that is just to pick up on what he had just said. it involves dealing with the russians and the iranians. it takes two to tango. you can talk to the saudis or the turkeys or jordanians or israelis. that's all well and good. but that's one side. >> i'm glad you mentioned iran because i want to talk about iran that was one of the bug items on the trip right after this break. we've all had those moments.

when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home... as an american express cardmember you can expect some help. but what you might not expect, is you can get all this with a prepaid card. spends like cash. feels like membership. diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues... with three strains of good bacteria. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'.

[ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers.

♪ pop goes the world [ female announcer ] pop in a whole new kind of clean with tide pods. just one pac has the stain removal power of 6 caps of the bargain brand. pop in. stand out. i'm absolutely convinced that the president is determined to prevent iran from getting nuclear weapons. i appreciate that. and i also appreciate something that he said which i mentioned in my opening remarks that the jewish people have come back to their own country to be the masters of their own fate and i

appreciate the fact that the president has reaffirmed more than any other president israel's right and duty to defend itself by itself against any threat. we just heard those important words now and i think that sums up our, oil say our common view. >> one of the major through lines in the plot between, you know, the story arc of netanyahu and obama's relationship is about iran and netanyahu has at times seem to all but threaten a preemptive strike with or without the u.s. pap lot of behind-the-scenes action on the part of the u.s. to get israel to climb down from that position which was successful in 2012. now it seems like they converged a bit. what's your read on where they are right now coming out of this trip >> my read is pretty much that. i was watching before what you said about the president going there and there were no real policy shifts. i think there was a policy shift from netanyahu and this is a culmination of a policy shift

starting at the u.n. speech you remember the famous bomb with the red line where he said there's more time but i'm still going to don't make noise about the iranian threat. he said yes i agree with the president's assessment and this is the assessment of the u.s. and really intelligence services. when iran decides to make a nuclear weapon it will take them a year. it's significant. >> this is an example of the president bringing netanyahu towards the american position. >> do i. >> i think the israeli military establishment has been cautioning netanyahu along the same lines. it's necessary as we listen to these speeches to question the assumption, why iran can't have nuclear capability at all. i think we start from that assumption and then have a discussion and don't consider that its neighbors, india, pakistan, israel all that have that nuclear capability and weapon yet we're afraid for iran for reasons that are masked in leadership being irrational and that's somewhat racist.

>> this is a different on netanyahu -- the u.s. policy is iran should not have a weapon. again, netanyahu has made statements about the ration enamelity of t i ality of this. the annual conference was told he assesses iran's nuclear program advancing slower than they planned. >> to the question, again, the united states policy is very clear. our policy is prevention not containment. it's not okay you can have a little weapon over there and we'll watch it. it's that iran cannot be allowed to have a nuclear weapon based on its record and based on its actions. this is a country that will not allow iaea inspectors into the country. it's been less than truthful or

accurate about the sage tage of nuclear program. it supports terrorism all over the world. last week in egypt, seven hamas representatives from iran were captured, caught in egypt trying to do some harm there. this is a country that tried assassinate the saudi ambassador to the united states in the united states. >> very unclear that that report is accurate. >> iran has engaged in some bad behavior but the point here is we now have netanyahu very much in line with obama's position. the way this gets done is through negotiation. >> can i split the difference between your two position. my feeling about iran not getting a nuclear weapon is grounded in a broader vision of nonproliferation. i would like to see a nuclear free world and it's hard for me

to imagine a universe where iran having nuclear program gets us closer to nonproliferation. >> i agree with you on nonproliferation. if you don't bring israel's nuclear weapons into the picture it's hard to agree on anything. the iranians apartment grand bargain. that's going to be very hard to achieve. here the president's instincts have been right. >> thank you. >> he's been, i think baffled at every turn. iran is evil and so forth. by the pressure from netanyahu and from israel lobby. if he really pushes on this, he might, he might be able to do something. i think it's really, really important. it will change the whole regional situation. >> what did we know now that we didn't know last week? my answer after this.

is. so what do we know now that we didn't know last week? we now know just how extreme the impact of climate change may be for coastal cities. according to ne research if global temperatures rise by 2 degrees celsius, which is probably the minimum in the amount of change we're headed for, storms like hurricane katrina will become more frequent. this means this will be a katrina magnitude storm surge every other year. hurricane katrina caused over $100 billion in damaged, killed 1800 people and weapon shouldn't have to live in a world with constant death and destruction. we now know one way the nfl is responding to concerns about team players' safety. they banned blocking an opponent from the blind side, which resulted in season ending images

from some. the new rule classifies such contact as a foul, resulting in a 15-year penalty. former football players have tested positive for a nerve degenerative disease that can lead to depression and dementia. while the rule changes may be a step in the right direction, they're not enough to undo what many, many have endured because of the sport they loved. and we know the white house may take a major step to address the increasing criticism of the drone program. they will be subject to stricter standards, regulation and review. strikes would be under interagency vetting, which means they can no longer deny the existence. we don't know how this will

change the drone program or increase the transparency and accountability, we do deserve to know twho the government kills and why it kills them. maybe with enough pressure we may get the government to tell us. >> well, one of this things we know is that the president showed us on his trip to israel you can appeal to politicians. he did that with the israeli public. he can do the own thing with the public on this issue. i pish he would say the things he laid out to the american people. obstruction that our politicians and institutions like apac with all due respect are putting up can be overcome by the fact that most americans, i think, agree with changing our policy in the middle east. >> i'm going to cheer my old boss who after just three months

as chair of the appropriations committee in the senate put together a continuing resolution which is about how we actually spend money, got bipartisan support for it. and avoiding a government shut down. there not be a government shutdown in the next month and barbara is a heck of a leader. >> i know the school to prison pipeline is devastating and some people make it but, but we shouldn't expect all youth and all people to be superheros. >> i learned the king of jordan really likes to chat. in an interview he was very, very open about issues in his country, criticizing private leaders, his own extended family, his secret police.

and we've all gone off and complained about our family and secret police. we don't do that on the record. >> thank you. coming up. human rights attorney about the middle east progress. thank you for getting up. that was fun. thank you for joining us today for "up." there's been a lot of news about the program and me over the last week. i'll be launching my new weeknight program on april 1st. set your alarm -- well, not alarm. you'll be up. monday through friday at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. tomorrow on this program we have news about the future of "up" which is not going anywhere. plus, four candidates to succeed mike bloomberg as mayor of kansas city. coming up next, melissa harris-perry. we'll see you right here tomorrow. thanks for getting up.

thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. exciting and would always come max and pto my rescue. bookstore but as time passed, i started to notice max just wasn't himself. and i knew he'd feel better if he lost a little weight. so i switched to purina cat chow healthy weight formula. i just fed the recommended amount...